HL7 and negation

Dear Colleagues,

HL7 is thinking about the problem of negation.
http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=Negation_Requirements
The group discussing it created a document with negation use cases.

My questions are:

  • Can you let us know your reaction to this list of use cases?
    And
  • How should ‘negation’ be handled the best in respect of semantic interpretability?

My personal opinions:

  • the boolean should not be used
  • try to translate the ‘negation’ problem into ‘presence and absence’. A concept is or is not present, a numeric result is of is not present.
  • do not use pre- and post co-ordinated concepts using SNOMED but use the SNOMED primitives.

I’m curious to learn what your opinion is.

Gerard

(attachments)

NegationUseCases.xlsx (54.8 KB)

It strikes me that some of those ‘use cases’ are summaries, so the semantics should take into account the components.

For example:
'No known allergy’ has a multiplicity of possible derivations: ‘allergy status not tested’, ‘never taken penicillin’, ‘never eaten peanuts’ , ’allergy status not in medical record’ etc.

‘Condition in remission’ could be ‘ Six weeks/months/… since condition [e.g. arythmia] occurred’ or ‘ Last two measurements [e.g creatinine] show condition no longer appears’.

Trying to assign a boolean value to a summary is not useful - it already is a status.

Regards,
Colin

Hi Gerard,

I don’t have time to look through the use cases right now, but I thought I should give a general outline to how we handle negation in openEHR archetypes.

Basically, there isn’t a single way that works for all use cases, but we’ve worked out a few patterns that seem to work:

· Some concepts are very safety critical, where you should never be able to confuse positive presence with negation. Examples of these are medications, adverse reactions, problems/diagnoses, family history, procedures, in some cases symptoms, and possibly implants. Negation of these need to be handled by separate “Exclusion of X” archetypes, which makes it impossible to query for something and inadvertently mix up presence and absence.

o Symptoms are a special case, where we have both the ability to use an explicit negation using the “Exclusion of a symptom” archetype, or the softer “no more than usual” “Nil significant” boolean element.

· Some concepts aren’t as safety critical, or are more of a specific status that should be updated in one single place of the health record. An example of this is smoking status, where both “Former smoker” and “Never smoked” could be seen as negations of “Current smoker”. This is handled as a value set in the main data element of the smoking summary archetype.

· Specific physical examinations sometimes need to be excluded, to be able to say “I didn’t perform the examination of the left eye because the patient has an artificial left eye”. This is handled using a separate cluster that’s reused within each examination cluster.

· Specific observations or scorings sometimes need to be excluded, to be able to say “Children’s Global Assessment Scale wasn’t performed for this child, because they’re younger than 4 years old”. This is an emerging pattern, but for now it looks like it’ll be similar to the examination exclusion, using a separate cluster that’s reused between the observations. We still don’t know for sure what to call this cluster, as “Examination of observation” can easily be mixed up with the archetype class OBSERVATION.

· There’s also the issue of how to specify the presence or non-presence of something in the context of an examination of the same thing. A good example of this is body fluids, which archetype is out for review right now. If anyone would like to have their say on this and isn’t invited to this review, please adopt this archetype to be invited: http://openehr.org/ckm/#showArchetype_1013.1.2255

I might have forgotten something, but I think these are the basic patterns of negation/exclusion we’re using/exploring as of now.

Kind regards,
Silje Ljosland Bakke

Information Architect, RN

Coordinator, National Editorial Board for Archetypes
National ICT Norway

Tel. +47 40203298

Web: http://arketyper.no / Twitter: @arketyper_no

Let’s state the problem as one of associating some sort of absence, presence, or in-between indicator with some X in a patient, or some other subject…

There is some discussion about this topic in SPECPR-118, in which Ian McNicoll made the comment:

I think we need to do a bit more thinking about the pros and cons and the somewhat different requirements of e.g negating a diagnosis vs. negating a symptom.

This is exactly right - there are different kinds of Xs. There are observable Xs, including things we use instruments to observe (which we generally assume to be reliable in a practical sense). So presence/absence claims can reasonably be made in cases where the X being observed (e.g. pregnancy, MRSA, being a smoker) is the same thing the claim is made about (is pregnant, neg MRSA, non-smoker). In this case, the presence / absence can reasonably be said to be part of the reported reality of the X in question.

However, if the claim is about a C (some ‘condition’) where C cannot be directly observed (or is not, in the current situation) then we are looking at an epistemic claim about knowledge of C, based on observed X, what X means in the context of patient type P, and so on. There is a range of epistemic claims that could be made about Cs, e.g. the following:

  • doesn’t exist - 100% sure C not present in patient - e.g. diabetes type I, based on negative oral glucose test

  • may exist - C is effectively one branch of a differential diagnosis or other assessment

  • does exist - 100% sure C present in patient - e.g. diabetes type I, based on +ve oral glucose test

  • no risk of C in future - 100% sure C will not occur, e.g. BRCA1 or 2 breast cancer, based on genetic test (we assume the latter is bullet-proof)

  • risk of C in future - some likelihood of C occurring

  • guarantee of C occurring in future - future reaction to exposure to bee venom in a patient known to be hyper-allergic to been venom

This basically boils down to:

  • it may be reasonable to allow presence or absence of true ‘observables’ to be encoded in a binary way (what we think of as Observations in openEHR)

  • claims regarding any kind of assessment, opinion, diagnosis, etc of something we don’t directly observe as such are epistemic claims, i.e. claims about type of knowledge we have of some C, and are not encodable as a Boolean ‘existence’ idea, but only as a level of certainty or similar. (what we think of as Evaluations in openEHR)

To make things somewhat annoying, there is probably a grey area between the two. For example, ‘pregnant’ could arguably be regarded as a direct observation or an assessment. But I think for 95% of cases things are obvious.

So my conclusion is that the way to record presence / absence of true observables could reasonably be done in a simple way, while any type of assessment has to be recorded in a way that a) allows some range of certainty, b) can include the temporal aspect (now, future etc) and c) can reflect the current state of the investigative process.

Another annoyance that may prevent simple modelling is that EHRs often include statements like ‘is diabetic’, e.g. reported by an obviously diabetic patient about her diagnosis from 20y ago. Such statements are not in themselves assessments, they are reports of the outcome of an earlier process. As such, it may be reasonable to report such things in a more or less binary way, e.g. is / is not diabetic.

I’m not a fan of negation or any other variety of presence, absence, risk of etc being part of terminology, at least not pre-coordinated with the ontological part (doing so is a total confusion about what the terminology expresses). A typology of negation / epistemic claims could potentially exist in some separate part of a terminology e.g. SNOMED, to be used to code information model property like ‘epistemic_status’, or similar.

Aside: apparently the FHIR approach to representing things like ‘no known allergies’ is to infer it by seeing if an allergies list is empty or not. That sounds like a bad idea to me. If ‘no known allergies’ is understood as a clinically meaningful statement made by e.g. a GP (based on reliable knowledge about the patient), checking for a list being empty in some EMR system isn’t at all the same thing. All that latter does is establish that no allergies have been recorded on this particular system.

  • thomas

Silje,

very nice analysis. Points 3 and 4 are a ‘not applicable’ idea, which needs to be catered for as such I think.

  • thomas

Aside: apparently the FHIR approach to representing things like ‘no known allergies’ is to infer it by seeing if an allergies list is empty or not. That sounds like a bad idea to me. If ‘no known allergies’ is understood as a clinically meaningful statement made by e.g. a GP (based on reliable knowledge about the patient), checking for a list being empty in some EMR system isn’t at all the same thing. All that latter does is establish that no allergies have been recorded on this particular system.

Well, that would be a bad idea. But that’s ok because that’s not what we do :wink:

There is a specific flag on list for noting the clinically meaningful statement, but what we’ve found is that almost all systems treat the statement of no allergies in an allergy record as an explicit statement

Btw, I don’t think that the statement of no allergy is a case of a negation statement

Grahame

Aside: apparently the FHIR approach to representing things like 'no known allergies' is to infer it by seeing if an allergies list is empty or not. That sounds like a bad idea to me. If 'no known allergies' is understood as a clinically meaningful statement made by e.g. a GP (based on reliable knowledge about the patient), checking for a list being empty in some EMR system isn't at all the same thing. All that latter does is establish that no allergies have been recorded on this particular system.

Well, that would be a bad idea. But that's ok because that's not what we do :wink:

good to know. I have incorrectly remembered the content of FHIR discussions on this topic.

There is a specific flag on list for noting the clinically meaningful statement, but what we've found is that almost all systems treat the statement of no allergies in an allergy record as an explicit statement

that sounds right.

Btw, I don't think that the statement of no allergy is a case of a negation statement

Is there any online summary of how negations, exclusions etc are understood in FHIR?

- thomas

There is a specific flag on list for noting the clinically meaningful statement, but what we've found is that almost all systems treat the statement of no allergies in an allergy record as an explicit statement

that sounds right.

Btw, I don't think that the statement of no allergy is a case of a negation statement

Is there any online summary of how negations, exclusions etc are understood in FHIR?

No, there's no summary at all. Our general approach is that the theory of negations from terminfo generally holds, but a thorough survey of what existing systems are doing (or, failing that, a series of connectathons) generally establishes that there are practical restrictions created by poor clinical record keeping that point to a different course of action.

Also, we consider other approaches, including the openehr exclusion model approach, which is also a part of FHIR.

Grahame

It is for the reasons that Thomas states that I think there are three Modifiers:

  • Presence
  • Certainty
  • Status

Gerard

Gerard,

in this scheme what does 'status' encode? Actual | future?

- thomas

In my system there are more kinds of ‘ENTRY’ than Observation, Evaluation, Ordering and Action.
I see the need to have kinds of patterns for processes like: Observing Assessing/Inferencing, Planning, Ordering and Executing.
Each of these processes have an associated state model and epistomological features of which one of them in Localisation in Time.

Gerard

Mr.beale

Please take me off you email list. I have not been this filed for 5 years. Thanks

Hi Thomas,

Point 3 is not simply about ‘not applicable’ – it is about the need to assert a clinical statement that the examination could not be done (as opposed to NA or didn’t feel like it), often for medicolegal purposes. It is more than ‘not applicable’ and often needs a reason why to be asserted. Classic example is a patient who has had an eye injury and concomitant head injury – the pupils are one of the physical signs that are monitored closely to track potential intracranial issues and if the pupils are not able to be visualised due to swelling or other trauma you may miss a clue as the patient deteriorates. We need to record that the clinician effectively looked but couldn’t complete the examination due to

Agree that Point 4 is a not applicable situation – for this patient only, but the template as a whole might be applicable for most others.

I know that it has been requested for many years but we also need reasons for selection of many of the existing RM null flavours…

Regards

Heather

Processes have state models to indicate how they are (are not) executed.
When an investigation could not be done there must be an abnormal status indicator and reason explaining why.

On other matter is the presence or absence of something.

Gerard