Pathology requirements CONTRIBUTION - 2 versions at once

CONTRIBUTION - 2 versions at once

There is a particular problem with results that are deemed to be incorrect
as the specimen is damaged - haemolysed blood samples being the most common
(See textural results to quantities thread). If the machine read data is to
be preserved in openEHR then this would need to be over written with the
correct result and both compositions saved at the same time - otherwise some
other agent might base some process on the interim situation where the first
composition is saved even for a microsecond. We think this relates to
machine processed data - but keeping medical student entries might be dealt
with in some environments in the same manner.

ACCESS CONTROL to interim reports

There will be times when the access to an interim report needs to be
controlled - such as an abnormal result from a lab that has not been signed
off by the final arbitor...but it may need to be available to a particular
team. Our access control models need to deal with this.

Cheers, Sam

For public health surveillance purposes, public health authorities want (or ought to
want) relevant interim results as soon as they are available, even if they are very
preliminary, with updates or verified versions coming subsequently. In dealing
with a real or potential communicable disease outbreak, time is of the essence.

Same applies in many clinical settings - tell me what the gram stain shows
ASAP, and I'll initiate antibiotic therapy, and then adjust when the organism is
identified and typed and the antibiogram is available. For many reasons,
including medicolegal, a record of what and how much information was known at
any particular time must be kept.

Tim C

You have factored the details relating to reporting. A major issue is the
transmission and reading of the result by the clinician. Ther is to be time
event to be recorded as to when the clinician who has direct control of the
patient has read it. A legal issue that will come up at times is that the
report shall be claimed to have been sent and the consultant clinician
shall claim not to have received it and thus not having read it. A timed
event for both these activities need to be available. Further there is a
need for alerting the clinicians once the report is ready.

There is a need to have the ability to generate an Interim report and then a
final report. It is the interim report that shall have to be avilable to few
and the detailed subsequently. Both these have to be a part of the EPR to
substantiate the clinican actions in case of a abnormal event when the
action of the clinician results in a abnormal event in the patients
recovery.

Even when the sample is haemolysed a track of the sample needs to be kept in
the EPR of the patient.

Bhupinder

Maybe two types of reports should be created in openEHR -
1. Pathology on demand which including pending, interim,
or part of the sequence tests, it's just a view displayed in openEHR
[can be authorized users' view if required]
2. Official reports [not views]stored in openEHR
which contains signed/or final pathology results ONLY,
revision should be supported as well.

By the way, I'm joining the group recently, where
can I get the preliminary Pathology requirements to review.
I developed several live pathology systems in several hospitals
in the States.

johnl

Bhipinder

Thank you. I think we have all of these issues covered.

Sam

You have factored the details relating to reporting. A major issue is the
transmission and reading of the result by the clinician. Ther is to be time
event to be recorded as to when the clinician who has direct control of the
patient has read it. A legal issue that will come up at times is that the
report shall be claimed to have been sent and the consultant clinician
shall claim not to have received it and thus not having read it. A timed
event for both these activities need to be available. Further there is a
need for alerting the clinicians once the report is ready.

Agree with all this. However, the EHR on its own cannot force people to read
things. So applications need to create alerts as necessary, and then what
happens next is dependent on policies. For example, one strategy is:

* if an item is added to the EHR, say a prelim test result at time t1, and a
clinician in the group having access to the EHR makes a decision and commences
an action (e.g. new investigation which is more expensive) for this patient at
time t5, then a reasonable rule of operation is that the clinician must have
made this decision with knowledge of the result recorded at t1, since in a
shared EHR to which he/she has access, there is no reason why not; if they
have not done so, they might be in breach of their duty.

The arguments against this working might be that if the EHR is bady organised,
there might be no easy way to find the relevant item(s) whcih might influence
the decision at time t5. So at least problem-threading and/or episode
classification is needed...

Another strategy would be:

* the clinician receives an alert of some kind (e..g email) and is required to
go into the EHR and change the test result in a field which means "seen and
accepted by treating clinician; dated xx/xx/xx hh:mm:ss". This acceptance is
now in the EHR, and it can be seen that it must have been part of the basis of
the next actions by the clinician. However, later actions by others might
still occur without knowledge of this accepted test result - unless the first
strategy is followed.

So - I think that the first strategy is at least needed, but it does not mean
that there does not need to be countersigning etc within the clinical workflow
somewhere the question is - how much of this finds its way into the EHR?

- thomas beale

CONTRIBUTION - 2 versions at once

There is a particular problem with results that are deemed to be incorrect
as the specimen is damaged - haemolysed blood samples being the most common
(See textural results to quantities thread). If the machine read data is to
be preserved in openEHR then this would need to be over written with the
correct result and both compositions saved at the same time - otherwise some
other agent might base some process on the interim situation where the first
composition is saved even for a microsecond. We think this relates to
machine processed data - but keeping medical student entries might be dealt
with in some environments in the same manner.

I don't see the problem here. This is the classic version control situation
which the model deals with. The preliminary result comes into the EHR and is
recorded as an ENTRY in some COMPOSITION. This is the result that is available
for say a couple of days. Presumably it should be marked "PRELIMINARY!" in
red...one might argue that there is a need for an attribute to support this
(in old GEHR days, there was the idea of a Nota Bene field). Anyone who makes
a clinical decision on this result is safe, as long as it is accepted that any
actions at all are allowed based on preliminary results.

When the true resulst comes in two lays later, it replacs the original as a
new version of the same COMPOSITION. Accessors of the EHR now see the latest
version (not marked preliminary...), and things go on as normal.

I think a problem that could occur is if lab A does a test and sends the
result in (and it goes in the EHR), then a clinician decides to get a second
test because they are surprised by the result (either same type, but different
lab, or some other kind of test) - and this 2nd test is done and the result
comes in, and clearly shows that there was some error in the first test. Since
they are not the same test/lab/protocol, the second result should not be a new
version of the first result, but logically its addition to the record has to
obsolete the first one (assuming all the relevant docs agree that this is the
case). So when it is added to the EHR as a first version of a COMPOSITION,
there has to be a LINK back to the original result with type="supersedes"; the
link in the other direction has type="superseded by".

Now the problem is to ensure that results which are superseded or obsoleted by
some such process are marked as being so, or else marked in some other way
that will ensure that querying does not find them. Currently this is not
supported, other than if the query engine knows it has to look for links of
type "superseded by", which is not particularly nice....

Do we need a new attribute in say the LOCATABLE class, e.g. a lifecycle status
attribute?

ACCESS CONTROL to interim reports

There will be times when the access to an interim report needs to be
controlled - such as an abnormal result from a lab that has not been signed
off by the final arbitor...but it may need to be available to a particular
team. Our access control models need to deal with this.

If you think this should be done by access control, then there will
definitiely need to be a computable attribute such as lifecycle status or
similar. But I am not sure that this needs special treatment. Currently there
is obviously a known process to follow if early, possibly fallible results are
acted upon; one view would say that all the EHR has to do is make the same
preliminary status visible to the clinicians, and then it is up to them to
follow the usual process.

Which might argue for a "nota bene" comment field.

- thomas beale

Hi Thomas,
I'm not sure I like the notion of "superceded". Is the first test an error? If so, the first result should simply be marked "wrong" and voided or removed. If the first result just looked a little goofy to the clinician, but there was nothing to indicate with certainty that it was erroneous... and the second result comes back with more reasonable-looking values... perhaps both results should be left in the record. The time-stamps will suggest to the clinician that the later one probably "supercedes" the earlier, goofy-looking result.

(Did I understand your scenario correctly?)
Regards,
-Chris

Christopher Feahr wrote:

Hi Thomas,
I'm not sure I like the notion of "superceded". Is the first test an
error? If so, the first result should simply be marked "wrong" and voided
or removed. If the first result just looked a little goofy to the
clinician, but there was nothing to indicate with certainty that it was
erroneous... and the second result comes back with more reasonable-looking
values... perhaps both results should be left in the record. The
time-stamps will suggest to the clinician that the later one probably
"supercedes" the earlier, goofy-looking result.

the clinician or the lab people (who might ring or email) should decide if the first
test is erroneous in the same way as they do today. If they do decide, they
mark it as superseded, or in error or whatever - it must be hidden from
querying. However, the actual result must not be removed from the system - it
si medico-legal evidence and may have been used to make a decision in the
interim period. That is why I am suggesting that all such Entries havea lifecycle
marker. This is somehting which I think our colleagues at UCL have long had in
their system, and I have never seen a scenario which I thought justified it until
now...

- thomas

Hi Thomas,
The issue here is that Pathology labs will produce a numeric result for say
Potassium
but when it is high willl look at the specimen, decide it is haemolysed and
actually
report "Haemolysed" as the result. The Lab will store two results, the
numeric value e.g. 7.0
and the reported result "Specimen haemolysed".
The value 7.0 should never be returned as the result to a query "show me all
potassium results"
but has to be recorded in the Labs EHR for the patient.
How should this be modelled?

Regards
Vince

Dr Vincent McCauley
CEO McCauley Software Pty Ltd

Hi,

Only an attribute will not be enough.
It has to be accompanied by rules.

Information will be stored in various contexts and not always in the same
system. The same information will be stored in separate contexts.
A change in the status of the 'Lifecycle marker' in one machine will not
result in changes in other machines, unless there is a replication service.
It is unlikely that all systems will be able to deal with such a service.
In order to handle this we need rules.
My suggestion for a rule would be: the 'Lifecycle marker' is valid
(maintained) in one system only.
Moving from one jurisdiction to an other means that the person that takes
responsibility for the admission of this information into a new
jurisdiction/system sets the marker to: received and admitted.

Part of the rules is a state machine that provides all the states of the
'Lifecycle marker'.

Gerard

-- <private> --
Gerard Freriks, arts
Huigsloterdijk 378
2158 LR Buitenkaag
The Netherlands

+31 252 544896
+31 654 792800

Vincent McCauley <vincem@mccauleysoftware.com>,

Hi Thomas,
The issue here is that Pathology labs will produce a numeric result for say
Potassium
but when it is high willl look at the specimen, decide it is haemolysed and
actually
report "Haemolysed" as the result. The Lab will store two results, the
numeric value e.g. 7.0
and the reported result "Specimen haemolysed".
The value 7.0 should never be returned as the result to a query "show me all
potassium results"
but has to be recorded in the Labs EHR for the patient.
How should this be modelled?

If there is a lifecycle or other marker on Entries then the marker can be set to an
appropriate value, either "superseded" as I suggested before, or perhaps
something like "exclude from automatic processing" as Sam has suggested.
Whatever the marker, this result will still be visible to queries that ignore this
marker (i.e. queries that get results for display on the screen), and the result
will still be available as a part of the record until such time as someone decides
to do a repeat test to replace it, in which case it remains a previous version of a
new correct result.

Probably in the archetypes for blood tests there should be place to put
the "haemolysed" classifier next to the value. Not sure exactly where this
should go at the moment...

- thomas

Regards
Vince

Dr Vincent McCauley
CEO McCauley Software Pty Ltd

From: "Christopher Feahr" <chris@optiserv.com>
To: "Thomas Beale" <thomas@deepthought.com.au>; "Openehr-Technical"
<openehr-technical@openehr.org>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 01:26
Subject: Re: Pathology requirements CONTRIBUTION - 2 versions at once

> Hi Thomas,
> I'm not sure I like the notion of "superceded". Is the first test an
> error? If so, the first result should simply be marked "wrong" and voided
> or removed. If the first result just looked a little goofy to the
> clinician, but there was nothing to indicate with certainty that it was
> erroneous... and the second result comes back with more reasonable-

looking

> values... perhaps both results should be left in the record. The
> time-stamps will suggest to the clinician that the later one probably
> "supercedes" the earlier, goofy-looking result.
>
> (Did I understand your scenario correctly?)
> Regards,
> -Chris
>
> >
> > > CONTRIBUTION - 2 versions at once
> > >
> > > There is a particular problem with results that are deemed to be
incorrect
> > > as the specimen is damaged - haemolysed blood samples being the most
common
> > > (See textural results to quantities thread). If the machine read data
is to
> > > be preserved in openEHR then this would need to be over written with
the
> > > correct result and both compositions saved at the same time -
otherwise
> > some
> > > other agent might base some process on the interim situation where the
> > first
> > > composition is saved even for a microsecond. We think this relates to
> > > machine processed data - but keeping medical student entries might be
dealt
> > > with in some environments in the same manner.
> >
> >I don't see the problem here. This is the classic version control
situation
> >which the model deals with. The preliminary result comes into the EHR and
is
> >recorded as an ENTRY in some COMPOSITION. This is the result that is
available
> >for say a couple of days. Presumably it should be marked "PRELIMINARY!"
in
> >red...one might argue that there is a need for an attribute to support
this
> >(in old GEHR days, there was the idea of a Nota Bene field). Anyone who
makes
> >a clinical decision on this result is safe, as long as it is accepted
that any
> >actions at all are allowed based on preliminary results.
> >
> >When the true resulst comes in two lays later, it replacs the original as
a
> >new version of the same COMPOSITION. Accessors of the EHR now see

the

I think there is a need for both "superceded" and "exclude from automatic
processing".

Wherever the "haemolysed" marker ends up in the archetype/EHR it won't be
the only such beast.
Some other examples are "clotted" and "clumped" for full blood counts,
"incorrectly collected" (specimen in wrong type of tube etc e.g not a
fluoride tube for a blood glucose), "warmed" (where specimen has to be keep
cold for correct results),
"cooled" where specimen has to be kept at body temp. (cold agglutinins etc)
and so on ...

Regards
Vince

Vince

The notion of superceded applies to compositions and is inherent in the
versioning approach. Exclude from automatic processing is for entries.

Sam