Williamtfgoossen@cs.com wrote:
In een bericht met de datum 8-1-2006 21:31:57 West-Europa (standaardtijd), schrijft gfrer@luna.nl:
Information is exchanged in communities.All clinical information belongs to the healthcare domain.
When clinical concept models (Archetypes) are expressed using an Open International Standard like the CEN/tc251 Archetypes,
both the Archetype expression and the constituting clinical concept models are not owned in a commercial sense.
Gerard
Sorry to be late in response, but this comment is only partly true. After having made about 150 archetypes for use in HL7 v3 messages (technical transition being no issue at all, clinical material is), we have encountered several issues.
Hi William,
I didn't know anyone had made archetypes for HL7v3 (except our one test archetype). Can you provide a URL to them?
Not all clinical information belongs to the healthcare domain. Many instruments and scales are copyrighted and require a licencing fee. Use in EHR or message is in that case no different from paper versions or dedicated software. This is similar to use of vocab which is or is not copyrighted.
Can you give an example of such a problem?
Use of CEN / ISO or OpenEHR does not solve this issue, neither does HL7: the clinical content can be owned in commercial sense.
- thomas beale
www.zorginformatiemodel.nl has about 85 stroke patient related archetypes.
unfortunately most are in Dutch, but we have translated about 10 to English now, most the simple ones or the ones that explain the approach also in more technical way.
Key is the binding knowledge, variables, vocabulary, value set and unique coding for each element or node.
William
Williamtfgoossen@cs.com wrote:
www.zorginformatiemodel.nl has about 85 stroke patient related archetypes.
unfortunately most are in Dutch, but we have translated about 10 to English now, most the simple ones or the ones that explain the approach also in more technical way.
Key is the binding knowledge, variables, vocabulary, value set and unique coding for each element or node.
William
William,
these are not archetypes, they are HL7v3 RMIMs. It is confusing to people if you call these archetypes - they don't obey the archetype model, aren't expressed in the archetype language (ADL) and aren't processible by the archetype tools....so I suggest we refer to them by their real name...(of course, if they were archetypes, that would be much nicer - we could share them outside the v3 message environment).
- thomas
Thomas Beale wrote:
www.zorginformatiemodel.nl has about 85 stroke patient related
archetypes.
unfortunately most are in Dutch, but we have translated about 10 to
English now, most the simple ones or the ones that explain the
approach also in more technical way.
Key is the binding knowledge, variables, vocabulary, value set and
unique coding for each element or node.
William
William,
these are not archetypes, they are HL7v3 RMIMs. It is confusing to
people if you call these archetypes - they don't obey the archetype
model, aren't expressed in the archetype language (ADL) and aren't
processible by the archetype tools....so I suggest we refer to them by
their real name...(of course, if they were archetypes, that would be
much nicer - we could share them outside the v3 message environment).
OK, I know this is an openEHR list, but nevertheless I don't think that
openEHR can claim exclusive use of the word "archetype" to refer only to
artefacts which are expressed in openEHR ADL. From such a claim it is a
slippery slope to having to refer to them as archetypes™, archetypes(TM)
or archetypes®.
Strictly speaking, an archetype is not a set of specifications or
constraints at all but rather (according to WordNet) "an original model
on which something is patterned" - that is, the master **instance** of a
thing, a prototype, from which specifications can be derived. openEHR
seems to be using the term archetype in the later, Jungian sense of "an
inherited pattern of thought or symbolic image that is derived from the
past collective experience of humanity and is present in the unconscious
of the individual".
My practice has been to refer to "openEHR Archetypes" to clearly
distinguish them from other uses of the English language word "archetype".
Perhaps on this and other openEHR lists, the term archetype could be
taken to mean "OpenEHR Archetype", and other types of archetype could be
distinguished as necessary by suitable qualification, including the
generic "non-openEHR archetype". But alternative uses of the term
archetype should not be denied.
Tim C