Why is the editor not opening ADL files?

Ian McNicoll wrote:

Hi Thomas,

Good summary which I would agree with in principle, but this only
properly applies where openEHR is being used to completely define the
information requirements. In practice, openEHR is really being used in
3 slightly different contexts...

1. Where applications are being developed with a pure openEHR
'back-end' covering both the EHR and Demographics models. In this
context,  a clear separation of  models with the spilt of content you
have defined above, is the correct design.

2. Where applications are being designed with an openEHR back-end to
cover the EHR content but integrated with an existing Patient Admin
system (PAS) or other pre-defined Demographics model e.g a national
standard, HL7-CDA.  In this case, the pure separation you defined
above may not be acheivable e.g. the PAS or national model may include
some aspects thatshould be in EHR such as Sex or Occupation.
Alternatively, it may be that the existing model will not allow some
3rd parties such as carers or other contacts to be stored in the PAS,
so these will have to be modelled in the EHR.

well there will clearly be overlaps between the EHR and PAS - sex, date of birth and occupation seem unavoidable. As a general approach, I believe an openEHR demographic service should always be deployed, usually as an interface to / mirror of a PAS or other PMI (but providing versioning, and proper archetyping). We still don’t want to pollute individual patient EHRs with multiple redundant copies of information about various carers etc.

3. Where openEHR is used  purely to gather and define clinical
content, with no expectation that either the EHR or Demographics
models will utlimately be modelled as openEHR within consuming
applications. This can cause some difficulties since, for instance,
while an archetype for surgical procedure does not need to explicitly
model the surgeon and any assistants as this is already catered for
within by the Participants attribute, clinical reviewers of the
archetype or templates, do like to be able to see this represented,
often structured within the main definition of the archetype. This was
the main reason that for the NHS modelling, we created some CLUSTER
archetypes, representing concepts like Organisation, Address,Carer
etc.

but this is faulty modelling - archetype is not the place to do such modelling - it is being misused in this instance to express the requirement / aspiration of having a form on the screen with a fully populated demographic items. The requirement is reasonable of course, but needs to be modelled elsewhere - it is the job of a virtual EHR service to integrate information from EHR, demographics and other services and present it on the screen in appropriate forms.

  • thomas

Hi Thomas,

TB:
We still don't want to pollute individual patient EHRs
with multiple redundant copies of information about various carers etc.

In principle, I absolutely agree, but if in an existing PAS is to be
interfaced/mirrored, we must accept that the faciliites e.g to record
carers, may simply not be available. As an EHR vendor, I can see the
attraction of just getting on with modelling this in my EHR .

TB
but this is faulty modelling - archetype is not the place to do such modelling - it is being misused in this instance to express the >requirement / aspiration of having a form on the screen with a fully populated demographic items. The requirement is reasonable of >course, but needs to be modelled elsewhere - it is the job of a virtual EHR service to integrate information from EHR, demographics and
other services and present it on the screen in appropriate forms.

Again, I cannot disagree but whilst the openEHR architecture and
tooling has been largely successful in appopriately obscuring the
technical aspects of modelling from clinical modellers, this is an
aspect that we have not got quite right as yet.

First off we need to be able to develop Demographics model archetypes
via clinically useable tools (which is happening and is where this
thread started) and then we must be able to display them within the
tools in an understandable and contextually appropriate fashion.
Whilst much of this could be done at template level, there are
situations where, from a user perspective, this is counter-intuitive.
As I said before, the strength of openEHR has been to be able to
present clinical information in an immediately understandable fashion,
no matter that the underlying technical model is quite different.

As an example, perhaps we have an operation note archetype, where the
surgeon and any assistants should be defined. This is, of course
already handled by Participations and ideally could be shown
explicitly in the template, complete with Demographics archetypes to
define the exact participant data required e.g .Name , Address, Grade,
Role .

However, perhaps there is also a legal/training requirement that the
lead operator start/stop time is captured i.e when the assistant takes
control. This clearly forms part of a per-patient record but relates
at node-level to a particular Participant. Possibly this is just a
tooling issue but I have wondered whether it might be helpful to allow
some sort of 'design-time' attribute to be applied to a node which
indicates that the node should not be instantiated in data but is
simply there as a placeholder for e.g a reference to a particular
participant or indeed to another part of the underlying Ref model
which is clinically important but not archetypeable e.g Date
performed in the ACTION class, but which is important for clinicians
to see. It could also be used to allow assertions to be made visible
and editable within correct clinical context.

Ian

Dr Ian McNicoll
office / fax +44(0)141 560 4657
mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
skype ianmcnicoll
ian@mcmi.co.uk

Clinical Analyst Ocean Informatics ian.mcnicoll@oceaninformatics.com
BCS Primary Health Care Specialist Group www.phcsg.org