# TDS, public development on openEHR wiki instead? (Was: Data-entry for OpenEhr)

**URL:** <https://discourse.openehr.org/t/tds-public-development-on-openehr-wiki-instead-was-data-entry-for-openehr/11992>\
**Category:** Technical (archive)\
**Created:** [28 April 2008 08:13 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/tds-public-development-on-openehr-wiki-instead-was-data-entry-for-openehr/11992 "2008-04-28T08:13:33Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![erik.sundvall](https://discourse.openehr.org/user_avatar/discourse.openehr.org/erik.sundvall/32/1961_2.png) [@erik.sundvall](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/erik.sundvall)\
**Post date:** [28 April 2008 08:13 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/tds-public-development-on-openehr-wiki-instead-was-data-entry-for-openehr/11992/1 "2008-04-28T08:13:33Z")

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Hi!

I believe TDS is a very nice approach for som especific integration  
purposes. Simple and wonderful invention (the best ones are often  
simple...) For those new to TDS there was a thread regarding this  
earlier: [http://www.openehr.org/mailarchives/openehr-technical/msg03116.html](http://www.openehr.org/mailarchives/openehr-technical/msg03116.html)

Are there any specific reasons for keeping the development internal to  
Ocean Informatics? As I understand it you sometimes internally use a  
wiki for these kinds of developments, I would suggest that you move  
the TDS (and if possible the AQL) development to the public openEHR  
wiki instead as they are of strategic importance to openEHR. Just post  
what you have right now including a comment that this is only  
experimental. This way you might get more input and wider  
testing.Certainly people/projects wanting to use TDS early will feel a  
lot more confident regarding progress and might trust it as a viable  
path to go for certain projects that would be riskier if there was  
only an expected release date from a company that may need to revise  
it's at priorities any time (as most companies do). Preliminary  
implementation experiments could be started right away and  
updated+launched when the real specification is finished.

Best regards,  
Erik Sundvall  
erisu@imt.liu.se [http://www.imt.liu.se/~erisu/](http://www.imt.liu.se/~erisu/) Tel: +46-13-227579

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**Author:** ![Heath\_Frankel3](https://discourse.openehr.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/e19b73/32.png) [@Heath\_Frankel3](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/Heath_Frankel3)\
**Post date:** [28 April 2008 09:27 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/tds-public-development-on-openehr-wiki-instead-was-data-entry-for-openehr/11992/2 "2008-04-28T09:27:45Z")

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Erik,  
The only reason for keeping it internal at this point is resources, having  
the time to document what has been done thus far in a publishable form. We  
have also been refining the rules and transformation based on implementation  
experience which has made this even more difficult. However, we feel that  
we are very close and are working on the documentation as quickly as we can  
(given priorities). I understand that you want us to simply publish what we  
currently have, but this is not the approach that Thomas wants to take at  
this point. Our intent is to provide a description of the transformation  
rules, and an XSL transform. The other factor is that the source of this  
transform is an Operational Template document, which is yet to be stabilised  
as we are awaiting the next draft of the Template Specification. I suspect  
that the TDS transformation will be published after this. I will leave it  
to Thomas to make any further comment on his return from leave.

Heath

> From: e.sundvall@gmail.com [mailto:e.sundvall@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Erik  
> Sundvall  
> Sent: Monday, 28 April 2008 5:44 PM  
> To: heath.frankel@oceaninformatics.com; For openEHR technical discussions  
> Subject: TDS, public development on openEHR wiki instead? (Was: Data-entry

for

> OpenEhr)
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I believe TDS is a very nice approach for som especific integration  
> purposes. Simple and wonderful invention (the best ones are often  
> simple...) For those new to TDS there was a thread regarding this  
> earlier:

[http://www.openehr.org/mailarchives/openehr-technical/msg03116.html](http://www.openehr.org/mailarchives/openehr-technical/msg03116.html)

> Are there any specific reasons for keeping the development internal to  
> Ocean Informatics? As I understand it you sometimes internally use a  
> wiki for these kinds of developments, I would suggest that you move  
> the TDS (and if possible the AQL) development to the public openEHR  
> wiki instead as they are of strategic importance to openEHR. Just post  
> what you have right now including a comment that this is only  
> experimental. This way you might get more input and wider  
> testing.Certainly people/projects wanting to use TDS early will feel a  
> lot more confident regarding progress and might trust it as a viable  
> path to go for certain projects that would be riskier if there was  
> only an expected release date from a company that may need to revise  
> it's at priorities any time (as most companies do). Preliminary  
> implementation experiments could be started right away and  
> updated+launched when the real specification is finished.
> 
> Best regards,  
> Erik Sundvall  
> erisu@imt.liu.se [http://www.imt.liu.se/~erisu/](http://www.imt.liu.se/~erisu/) Tel: +46-13-227579
> 
> \> Ocean is also developing the idea of a Template Data Schema, which will

be

> \> published as a draft on openEHR in the coming months. This does

provide a

> \> specific XML schema for a template (or combined collect of archetypes)  
> where  
> \> the XML element names come from the archetype element names, but there

is

> \> additional meta-data in the schema and the XML document based on that  
> schema  
> \> which links each XML element back to the archetype element such as the  
> \> node\_ids so that generic transformation logic can be written to

generate an

> \> openEHR instance for any set of archetypes. These Template Data

Schemas

> can  
> \> be automatically generated from the archetype/template models based on

a

> set  
> \> of rules. I can give you a sample of this if you would like but I

suspect

> \> that you don't need this template specific approach, which is intended

more

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**Author:** ![system](https://discourse.openehr.org/uploads/default/original/2X/f/f0a1dedb20c42747bddcafd6c7df9db5f34f003c.svg) [@system](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [28 April 2008 13:21 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/tds-public-development-on-openehr-wiki-instead-was-data-entry-for-openehr/11992/3 "2008-04-28T13:21:56Z")

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Hi Erik

This blew me away when Heath showed me it - Tom and I had envisaged it and discussed it theoretically some years ago and always thought it would be good to have a simple schema for a template that ‘collapsed’ all the archetypes, template constraints and and reference model into a schema for a specific purpose. Then Heath showed us it working and we were impressed. But the magic is the way you can use a single transform XSL (300 lines or so) that converts any TDS to full openEHR for storage or for further safe transformations (to CDA for instance).

We are going to put this out there - do not fear. But we do want it to be working and correct. Happy to liaise with you on this as we go.

Cheers, Sam

Erik Sundvall wrote:

> **(attachments)**
>
> ![OceanInformaticsl.JPG](https://discourse.openehr.org/images/transparent.png)

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**Author:** ![thomas.beale](https://discourse.openehr.org/user_avatar/discourse.openehr.org/thomas.beale/32/35_2.png) [@thomas.beale](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/thomas.beale)\
**Post date:** [2 May 2008 17:19 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/tds-public-development-on-openehr-wiki-instead-was-data-entry-for-openehr/11992/4 "2008-05-02T17:19:48Z")

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Heath Frankel wrote: