# ref_impl_ruby **Category:** [Implementers (archive)](https://discourse.openehr.org/c/implementers-archive/158) **Created:** 2007-11-24 19:26 UTC **Views:** 3 **Replies:** 15 **URL:** https://discourse.openehr.org/t/ref-impl-ruby/14699 --- ## Post #1 by @system Dear all We launched ref\_impl\_ruby project in August 2007 in Japan\. Now, we succeeded in implementation of ADL parser\. The bellow URL shows detail of the project\. http://www.openehr.jp/wiki/Ruby%20reference%20implementation Ruby is a smart and powerful object oriented script language, which takes less effort to programming\. I believe that Ruby implementation will enhance the availability of openEHR well\. We have many module to implement to openEHR environment, but members are not enough in Japan\. Please join us if you are interested in Ruby\. And please set up ref\_impl\_ruby mailing list and repository in openEHR official site\. --- ## Post #2 by @system KOBAYASHI, Shinji schreef: > Dear all > > We launched ref\_impl\_ruby project in August 2007 in Japan\. Now, we > succeeded in implementation of ADL parser\. The bellow URL shows detail > of the project\. > http://www.openehr.jp/wiki/Ruby%20reference%20implementation > Ruby is a smart and powerful object oriented script language, which > takes less effort to programming\. I believe that Ruby implementation > will enhance the availability of openEHR well\. > We have many module to implement to openEHR environment, but members are > not enough in Japan\. Please join us if you are interested in Ruby\. > And please set up ref\_impl\_ruby mailing list and repository in openEHR > official site\. > Very interesting, I find this very encouraging\. I don;t know much about Ruby, in fact, almost nothing\. Does it implement mutiple inheritance? And how does the language behave on scalability, when it class\-instance are "run" as a service, is it well possible to run multiple threads of openehr instances simultaneous without using to much resources? I would surely be glad if a ruby\-implementation would exist on the openehr website, it is not me to decide, but that is my opinion I hope the road to knowledge on the ruby language and environment is not to hard to do\. good luck and I hope we will hear more about you and this project Bert Verhees --- ## Post #3 by @system > I don;t know much about Ruby, in fact, almost nothing\. Does it implement > mutiple inheritance? There are a number of discussions around multiple inheritance\. Ruby dose not implement multiple inheritance but implement 'mix\-in' by module, because multiple inheritance is recognised as a source of complexity by Ruby developers\. In Ruby, 'module' act as abstract class and interfece in Java\. Module can not be instantiated but inherit methods to child class\. Mix\-in act almost like multiple inheritance with less complexity\. http://www.juixe.com/techknow/index.php/2006/06/15/mixins-in-ruby/ > And how does the language behave on scalability, when it class\-instance > are "run" as a service, is it well possible to run multiple threads of > openehr instances simultaneous without using to much resources? I don't know the answer if Ruby has scalability to run openEHR, because I have not implemented all the task yet\. However, some popular web sites running on Ruby perform well\. Do you know twitter? It is running on Ruby on Rails\. I think Ruby scales for openEHR enough\. http://www.slideshare.net/Blaine/scaling-twitter/ Ruby on rails is a powerful framework for web application\. We want to make openEHR plugin for rails and use it for my systems\. http://www.rubyonrails.org/ --- ## Post #4 by @Tim_Cook2 All, I believe that there has been huge growth in the awareness around the world of openEHR and especially archetypes over the past two years\. The keyword in that sentence is 'awareness'\. In many places there is a pretty serious lack of understanding\. Tom Beale, et\.al\. has done a wonderful job over the years of creating AND maintaining outstanding documentation for the Foundation\. This is a first for many open source/open content projects\. How can we the community, support the Foundation better so the Foundation can support us better? \[Caution random thoughts ahead\] At an appropriate time, conferences are very beneficial in community and awareness building\. \[5\-6 years out for an openEHR conference?\] Meetings at other related conferences are always good\. I understand that there were a significant number at MedInfo this year \[I couldn't be there :\-< \]\. This is something that should be in the planning\. Are there papers to be presented? Where will they be submitted? BoF meetings\. How can we come together under the auspices of the Foundation to build internal support and support each other? \[actually I understand this is already being worked on\] I'd love to have discussion on these and other points\. Remember; "a rising tide floats all boats" \[I have no idea who said that but it sounds cool so I repeat it often\]\. :\-\) A story about what \(partially\) prompted this email: I was invited to give a presentation to a Standards working group on Archetypes\. Now; I am not an "Archetypes" expert by any means\. Heck, I'm not even a clinician\. But I do understand the Reference Model and I understand two\-level modeling\. Besides, I've never been to Kenya before\. :\-\) So I accepted\. I was also asked to present a comparison between OpenMRS "Concepts" and archetypes\. Well, I ass\-u\-me\-d that the people that had invited me saw some similarities between them and wanted some clarification and a suggestion as to how the two might be used together\. After several weeks of just thinking about a presentation and asking a question here and there\. I realized that the conference in next and maybe I should really understand OpenMRS "Concepts"\. \[usually a good idea at this point\]\. BTW: The panel we are in together was labeled "Vocabulary Management"\. I had sent an email a few weeks ago suggesting it should be called "Knowledge Management" if we were presenting "Archetypes" and "Concepts"\. No answer\. On Wednesday \(yes only 5 days before traveling to the conference\) I started engaging the OpenMRS community with serious questions \(I had been lurking for weeks\)\. Well, one question led to two and two to four \(you get the idea\) and pretty soon I think I shut down OpenMRS development progress because everyone was busy answering my questions \(sorry but thanks, OpenMRS guys\)\. After my re\-education and a basic "aaaaaHHHHHHaaaaaa" I realized that "Concepts" and "Archetypes" are not even close in similarity\! Basically, "Concepts" are a local vocabulary used to improve computability to patient responses in a typical EAV data model\. My point is \[may be you haven't done this\] that it is too easy sometimes to get so close to something that you do not understand or appreciate the view point of others\. I began to make assumptions\. I almost lost an opportunity to present the wonderful virtues of openEHR and two\-level modeling because of it\. I am looking forward to next week and I really do appreciate my hosts asking me to attend\. In preparing the media for the conference they asked for presentations as well as any background documentation\. I included \(with my presentation\) the openEHR overview, the archetype principles document \(after checking the license\) and a couple of archetypes in ADL and HTML\. I believe \(hope\) that people that would not normally go tot he website to look for these will at least browse them on the conference media\. I also think that it is very important for us to point out that while the ideal is a longitudinal, future proof health record\. The openEHR specifications \(applications\) can deliver independent clinical applications that can share information\. Lets say that a health authority wants to review TB registries, Malaria registries and HIV registries\. They can do that with the same application using the specific archetypes from each area\. No other model can accomplish that\. So, my point is \.\.\. we as a community need to promote and EDUCATE at every opportunity, the concepts of openEHR, archetypes and the Foundation so that we can encouragin funders to recognize the Foundation needs and so that the Foundation can grow to support us\. DISCLAIMER: I am not a member of the openEHR Foundation Board of Directors nor do I have any financial stake in the Foundation\. I do however believe that this is the best opportunity that the world has \(so far\) to achieve longitudinal, interoperable, computable health information systems\. Your comments are encouraged, Tim --- ## Post #5 by @Hugh_Leslie1 Hi Tim I couldn't agree more! Hope your conference goes very well - let us know if there is anyway that we can support you. regards Hugh Tim Cook wrote: --- ## Post #6 by @system Hi Tim, I fully agree with you! The openEHR community need to go out and present the idea of Archetype and two-level modelling to wider audience. So far the openEHR presence in scientific conferences like MIE and Medinfo has been quite good. There were 14 papers, workshops and posters about openEHR at Medinfo this year! All of them can be found at: [http://www.openehr.org/shared-resources/conferences/medinfo2007.html](http://www.openehr.org/shared-resources/conferences/medinfo2007.html). There were also coverage of openEHR at MIE2006 as I recall. Maybe we should try to collect the papers and put them on openEHR site. Besides scientific conference, we should also participate more general conferences for clinical user groups and software vendors. Next year's MIE2007 in Gothenberg is a good opportunity since it's collocated with a major Swedish health IT conference Vitalis, which will draw audience from hospitals, software industry and government. The awareness of openEHR and Archetype in Sweden is quite high. Projects on national and county level are investigating Archetype based EHR standards. As it looks now, there probably will be good coverage of openEHR both at MIE2007 and Vitalis. It would be nice to organize some activities for the openEHR community then like what we did at Medinfo. =) More specifically about the design comparison between OpenMRS and openEHR, Gunnar and I did such a comparison study between a template-based complementary EHR system and openEHR. The result is published here: [http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6947/7/10](http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6947/7/10). Hope this is useful to you. Cheers, Rong --- ## Post #7 by @Stef_Verlinden1 Hi Tim > How can we the community, support the Foundation better so the > > Foundation can support us better? Exellent question. Here are some suggestions: - is it possible to have on the website a list of interesting conferences and a list of attendees from the community, so we can know who is going to which meeting. - I've noticed that many presentations are posted on our website. Is it an idea to create/provide some 'basic/ general tutorial presentations free to use for everybody. I know that people like Thomas, Sam and Dipak (and others) are working extremely hard to create awareness, but unfortunately they can't be everywhere. Such presentations could be of help for the 'less experienced' among us to help to create awareness. - I don't know if this is true and maybe it's just my imagination, but I have the feeling is that less energy is spend in creating awareness amongst the 'end-users', i.c. the health-care providers. If so how could we reach those even more, in the end they will be our best ambassadors? - in that respect. You stated '[5-6 years out for an openEHR conference?]'. Maybe so, but I really think that in the meantime there should at least be some 'workshops/bootcamps/whatever you want to call them' for the clinicians to learn, transfer and improve the art of archetyping. This could also be the, in my opinion much needed platform, to discuss archetype creation strategies. It would be a shame if different strategies would arise to tackle similar problems which then later-on needs to be harmonized. Really looking forward to a report of the Standards working group meeting. I really like the way you write things down. Maybe we can appoint you as the communities PR manager:-) Cheers, Stef --- ## Post #8 by @DavidIngram Tim I was very interested to read of your engagement with openMRS as there has been contact with me about this via Don Detmer, CEO of AMIA, who is a visiting professor in CHIME\. What you are doing seems an excellent way of broadening out the openEHR mission\. After your conference, it would be extremely helpful to hear, in some detail, your assessment of the commonalities and differences, and the potential and useful opportunities to develop synergy with them, from the Foundation\. On the broader issues you raise, the Board has been working on a number of options for supporting the consolidation and development of the openEHR community, through a business case built around the Foundation's mission, which emphasises clinical and health engagements, rigour and openness of technical approaches, and building of trust within user communities\. We believe that revenue to the Foundation must come through its direct connection with and relevance to these three, and from activities and organisations that identify with or build on its mission\. As of now, having a financial interest in the openEHR Foundation essentially means paying bills, which have been considerable, in cost and in kind, over a long period of time\. For my part, I am very fortunate in having had the explicit support of successive Presidents of UCL in holding this position, but we all recognise that we have to find the right way, now, to change gear and put future finances onto a proper and sustainable footing\. Sam and I have started some confidential high level discussions, here, about this, and we have been very well received\. I have worked a lot in the voluntary sector and know the often quite unproductive load that can be placed on Foundations that depend, for their work, on sponsorship and voluntary support, alone\. We should thus, we believe, explore appropriate revenue streams, tied closer into the contractual domain, around use and support of the openEHR IPR and trademark\. Any useful trademark must be asserted, supported and, if necessary, defended, and that costs money; even acquiring the trademark has cost us a great deal\. But, that said, clearly Foundation revenue streams must be framed in such a way that they are explicitly connected with relevance and usefulness in pursuit of the mission of the Foundation, as an open and not\-for\-profit enterprise\. This is not an easy balancing act and there are no exact parallels that I know of, though many quite close analogies to learn from\. We must and are determined to take our time to get this next stage right\. We're in this for the long term and welcome and value all the huge amount of thoughtfulness and commitment shown within the community, that is helping us all move forward\. By the way this should perhaps be a post on a different list\. David 'A rising tide floats all boats' is a new one on me; I will check its provenance and certainly remember it\. In the worlds I move in we often seem to live in a Mr Micawber \(Charles Dickens\) zone between 'income = one pound, expenditure equals one pound and sixpence \(misery and disaster abound\)' and 'income = one pound, expenditure equals nineteen shillings and sixpence \(joy and munificence all round\)'\! Change management in the latter scenario seems an Human Resources Department free breeze; in the former scenario a completely draining HR dominated nightmare\! So I'm all for rising tides\. In England, we have some tides that rise and fall 10 metres, every day, though\! --- ## Post #9 by @Tim_Cook2 Hi David, Thanks for the reply\. I 'think' it was the economist Milton Friedman that said the quote about tides and boats???? I will certainly report to the Foundation & community on the results of this conference\. OpenMRS has a very high profile now and the team has been very giving of their time\. It is great to have the opportunity to work with them\. We have been VERY fortunate to have the support of UCL over the years\. But, I am very happy to hear that the Board is looking at long term solutions in maintaining the Foundation\. Part of my point is that it is incumbent upon us all to participate at some level in that sustainability\. You are correct that this isn't the correct mailing list for this discussion\. However, there is no mailing list for discussing the Foundation or for publicity or even for education\. I thought about using the Wiki\. But really, unless you make a compelling case in an email people aren't going to click through to the Wiki page anyway\. So, I plead guilty to list abuse\! ;\-\) Stef Verlinden had some great comments \(on the Implementers list\)\. One in particular is about providing presentations that others can deliver when the find themselves in a venue/meeting where openEHR would be an appropriate topic\. In the past, Tom Beale has allowed me to use some of his graphics etc\. that were likely created under the auspices of Ocean Informatics\. I think that we should have at least some basic presentations \(with notes\) that everyone can use that have explicit open license's\. I will donate to that effort\. Shall I copy/reformat this for the wiki? Cheers, Tim --- ## Post #10 by @system Isn't this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_rising_tide_lifts_all_boats I also agree that many conferences make better the community, but it is difficult for worldwide project, such as openEHR\. Therefore, we have local activity in Japan to have many conference and parties\. I think about open source community norm is in terms of another JFK speech, "And so, my fellow developers: ask not what your community can do for you \- ask what you can do for your commnunity\. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what Foundation will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man\." We have a freedom to develop openEHR systems within the licenses\. The freedom in research and development is great worthy in sustainability\. Both OpenMRS and openEHR are deffer in modeling but have the same concept, 'Freedom' I am looking forward your educational tutorials and send cheers for your act as an 'evangelist' of open source in medicine\. I will also write codes for me, medical providers and open source community in the world\. --- ## Post #11 by @Hugh_Leslie1 Actually, I think that the really exciting thing is that we now have a growing community of openEHR people from around the world who want to contribute and make it grow. Shinji, we really appreciate you and your groups growing participation in the community. I look forward to coming to Japan one day soon and sharing some of that really good Sushi that you promised me! regards Hugh KOBAYASHI, Shinji wrote: --- ## Post #12 by @Tim_Cook2 Hi Rong, I had not previously seen this paper\. It should be "required reading"\. ;\-\) Thanks for the link\. Cheers, Tim --- ## Post #13 by @thomas.beale Tim Cook wrote: > > Stef Verlinden had some great comments \(on the Implementers list\)\. One > in particular is about providing presentations that others can deliver > when the find themselves in a venue/meeting where openEHR would be an > appropriate topic\. In the past, Tom Beale has allowed me to use some of > his graphics etc\. that were likely created under the auspices of Ocean > Informatics\. I think that we should have at least some basic > presentations \(with notes\) that everyone can use that have explicit open > license's\. I will donate to that effort\. > \*well, most of the PPTs I created were paid for by Ocean, UCL or me \(earlier days\)\. If they are on the website, they are fair game for re\-use but the original authors should always be acknowledge of course\. Do we need to go as far as having a license to cover presentations? Maybe we do\.\.\.\. sugestions are welcome\. \- thomas --- ## Post #14 by @grahamegrieve > If they are on the website, they are fair game for > re\-use actually, legally, no if they are posted with no details concerning copyright, then default copyright applies, which is called "fair use"\. But like everything legal, "fair use" has a legal definition which differs from sensible interpretation\. In some countries, this difference has been underlined by applicable case law So it's important to be explicit about allowed usage\. I use either EPL \(http://www.eclipse.org/org/documents/epl-v10.php) or Creative Commons \(http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/au/) > Maybe we do\.\.\.\. sugestions are welcome\. yes, you should, and I suggest either the applicable openEHR licenses or creative commons\. Grahame --- ## Post #15 by @erik.sundvall HI\! I was also just about to suggest Creative Commons \(CC\) when I saw the reply from Grahame\. There are several CC versions for different purposes, see: http://creativecommons.org/about/ http://creativecommons.org/license/ http://creativecommons.org/about/license/ I'd suggest using the most liberal ones \(e\.g\. "by" or "public domain"\) for presentational material intended for reuse: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ The "by" licence mixes well with the common scientific publication process\. Using software licenses like GPL or EPL for documents can be unnecessarily confusing\. The current licence for the openEHR specifications\.\.\. http://www.openehr.org/releases/1.0.1/html/architecture/overview/Output/front.html \.\.\. seems to be close to\.\.\. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/ \.\.\.so for next specification release one could consider switching to that if a more well known license is wanted\. By the way, the web\-remake seems to have killed the link referred to in the openEHR specification licence undetected: http://www.openehr.org/free_commercial_use.htm Best regards, Erik Sundvall erisu@imt\.liu\.se http://www.imt.liu.se/~erisu/ Tel: \+46\-13\-227579 --- ## Post #16 by @system > if they are posted with no details concerning copyright, then > default copyright applies, which is called "fair use"\. But like In the Netherlands, default copyright means "no right to copy" all rigths are with the writer, not even his employer has any right, which was a problem on an application on which the at that time employed programmer claimed copyright, sometime after he was fired\. Bert --- **Canonical:** https://discourse.openehr.org/t/ref-impl-ruby/14699 **Original content:** https://discourse.openehr.org/t/ref-impl-ruby/14699