# Patient reported history **Category:** [Clinical (archive)](https://discourse.openehr.org/c/clinical-archive/153) **Created:** 2008-06-17 06:54 UTC **Views:** 1 **Replies:** 8 **URL:** https://discourse.openehr.org/t/patient-reported-history/14764 --- ## Post #1 by @Daniel_Karlsson Dear Everyone, I have a question regarding patient reported history and how the time\(s\) of that would be represented in the reference model\. 1971\-1992 patient married to X 2008\-06\-17 patient asked about social history, reports that he/she was married to X 1971\-1992\. What would be the HISTORY\.origin and EVENT\.time \(or INTERVAL\_EVENT\.width?\) of this? Or would the timings of this be archetyped? Is this an observation of the patients memory taking place now or an observation of the past event of marriage? Regards, Daniel --- ## Post #2 by @thomas.beale Daniel Karlsson wrote: > Dear Everyone, > > I have a question regarding patient reported history and how the time\(s\) > of that would be represented in the reference model\. > > 1971\-1992 patient married to X > > 2008\-06\-17 patient asked about social history, reports that he/she was > married to X 1971\-1992\. > > What would be the HISTORY\.origin and EVENT\.time \(or > INTERVAL\_EVENT\.width?\) of this? Or would the timings of this be > archetyped? Is this an observation of the patients memory taking place > now or an observation of the past event of marriage? >   Daniel, It depends on whether we want to record marriages as a computable fact\. There are two possibilities \(at least\): 1\. as you say, use Observation, History, Interval\_event etc to record the marriage start, period and end\. This would need an archetype\. 2\. record what the patient says using the 'patient story' archetype\. This just records what was said in a narrative form\. Up to clinical people to decide what they want\! \- thomas beale --- ## Post #3 by @Rikard_Lovstrom1 2008/6/17 Thomas Beale <[thomas.beale@oceaninformatics.com](mailto:thomas.beale@oceaninformatics.com)>: > Daniel Karlsson wrote: > > Dear Everyone, > > > > I have a question regarding patient reported history and how the time(s) > > of that would be represented in the reference model. > > > > 1971-1992 patient married to X > > > > 2008-06-17 patient asked about social history, reports that he/she was > > married to X 1971-1992. > > > > What would be the HISTORY.origin and EVENT.time (or > > INTERVAL_EVENT.width?) of this? Or would the timings of this be > > archetyped? Is this an observation of the patients memory taking place > > now or an observation of the past event of marriage? > > > > Daniel, > > It depends on whether we want to record marriages as a computable fact. > There are two possibilities (at least): > > 1. as you say, use Observation, History, Interval_event etc to record > the marriage start, period and end. This would need an archetype. > 2. record what the patient says using the 'patient story' archetype. > This just records what was said in a narrative form. > > Up to clinical people to decide what they want! > > - thomas beale Dear Daniel and Thomas, If you would like to study the correlation between length of marriage and another parameter, you would need alternative 1 for a computable fact, wouldn't you? Then the narrative form isn't enough. - Rikard Lovstrom --- ## Post #4 by @thomas.beale Rikard Lövström wrote: > >     It depends on whether we want to record marriages as a computable >     fact\. >     There are two possibilities \(at least\): > >     1\. as you say, use Observation, History, Interval\_event etc to record >     the marriage start, period and end\. This would need an archetype\. >     2\. record what the patient says using the 'patient story' archetype\. >     This just records what was said in a narrative form\. > >     Up to clinical people to decide what they want\! > >     \- thomas beale > > Dear Daniel and Thomas, > > If you would like to study the correlation between length of marriage > and another parameter, you would need alternative 1 for a computable > fact, wouldn't you? Then the narrative form isn't enough\. > > \- Rikard Lovstrom > excuse my jetlag, I wasn't clear \.\.\. I should have said that only option 1\. is computable\. \- thomas --- ## Post #5 by @Daniel_Karlsson Tom, let me rephrase my question a bit: is the EVENT classes time attributes used to represent the time of the observation or the time \(related to?\) of the thing observed\. In examples in the EHR IM I think it is the former and not the latter case, but its not all clear to me\. A third possibility would be to archetype the times\. /Daniel --- ## Post #6 by @thomas.beale Daniel Karlsson wrote: --- ## Post #7 by @system Hi Daniel Not to contradict the technical discussion, I would argue that the recording of relationships are probably best done in the form of an evaluation archetype - as this is likely to be summary data and the dates are not likely to be due to repeated observations, rather recorded after the fact. I can see no advantages to using the observation class here which is designed for repeated recording of the same phenomena. It would be useful if we asked someone if they are married each time they came to see us - Are you still married? The dates when information is recorded in a summary context can be more complex and just as computable. Thus if we were to have a relationship archetype it might have the date of meeting, of onset of sexual relationships, of cohabitation, of marriage/legal relationship, of separation, of divorce, of last contact. It could include the name and contact details and whether the person is the next of kin and exist in the Social History persistent composition. The information classes in openEHR are just that - they are good for purpose. The observation class is really based on scientific observation (measurements, state and method) and is not suited to summary information of a complex concept. It is best for observations or measurements of a feature that vary with time and may be repeated. The names give an indication of when they are most useful, but it is the features of the class that determine which to use. It is important not to confuse this with Larry Weed's SOAP, although they are often aligned. I hope this is helpful. Cheers, Sam Daniel Karlsson wrote: [details="(attachments)"] ![OceanInformaticsl.JPG|183x82](upload://2lcnRHcC3QqDv6AeaDZuo8M9Qlv.jpeg) [/details] --- ## Post #8 by @S_Zahid_Hassan Please remove me from the email list, thanks [details="(attachments)"] ![OceanInformaticsl.JPG|183x82](upload://2lcnRHcC3QqDv6AeaDZuo8M9Qlv.jpeg) [/details] --- ## Post #9 by @ian.mcnicoll Hi Daniel, In the specific example of 'Married to XX between y and Z, I think I would probaly Dr Ian McNicoll office \+44\(0\)141 560 4657 fax \+44\(0\)141 560 4657 mobile \+44 \(0\)775 209 7859 skype ianmcnicoll Consultant \- Ocean Informatics ian\.mcnicoll@oceaninformatics\.com Consultant \- IRIS GP Accounts Member of BCS Primary Health Care Specialist Group – http://www.phcsg.org --- **Canonical:** https://discourse.openehr.org/t/patient-reported-history/14764 **Original content:** https://discourse.openehr.org/t/patient-reported-history/14764