# Medinfo 2010 openEHR tutorial collision

**URL:** <https://discourse.openehr.org/t/medinfo-2010-openehr-tutorial-collision/14984>\
**Category:** Clinical (archive)\
**Created:** [7 May 2010 14:51 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/medinfo-2010-openehr-tutorial-collision/14984 "2010-05-07T14:51:05Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 12\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![system](https://discourse.openehr.org/uploads/default/original/2X/f/f0a1dedb20c42747bddcafd6c7df9db5f34f003c.svg) [@system](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [7 May 2010 14:51 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/medinfo-2010-openehr-tutorial-collision/14984/1 "2010-05-07T14:51:05Z")

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Hi!

The recently published preliminary Medinfo 2010 programme at...  
[http://www.medinfo2010.org/docs/Draft\_Conference\_Programme.pdf](http://www.medinfo2010.org/docs/Draft_Conference_Programme.pdf)  
...lists two openEHR tutorials in parallel...  
1. OpenEHR I - IV (Saturday 11 September 9:00-17:00)  
2. EHR implementation tips I-II (Saturday 11 September 9:00-12:30)

If I understand the content of the tutorials correctly, these are  
renamed versions of the ones mentioned on...  
[http://www.openehr.org/wiki/display/resources/MedInfo+2010+-+South+Africa](http://www.openehr.org/wiki/display/resources/MedInfo+2010+-+South+Africa)  
1. Clinical Modeling Workshop Proposal  
2. The openEHR developers' workshop

If so, then I think it would be advantageous for somebody interested  
in openEHR to first attend 1 and then if they have a technical  
implementation interest to also attend 2.

Is there an interest among the openEHR community in asking the  
organizing comitte to move #2 to sunday the 12:th instead or does it  
not matter for most of you?

I'll send a copy of this mail to info@medinfo2010.org as an early  
notice, and then sum up the response from the lists and/or comments on  
[http://www.openehr.org/wiki/display/resources/MedInfo+2010+-+South+Africa](http://www.openehr.org/wiki/display/resources/MedInfo+2010+-+South+Africa)  
in a follow up mail later.

In addition to the reason above, about #2 partially building on  
understanding possible to gain in #1, it is also rather tricky  
flight-wise, but hopefully possible, for some of us involved in #2 to  
be there in time on the morning the 11:th.

Best regards,  
Erik Sundvall  
erik.sundvall@liu.se [http://www.imt.liu.se/~erisu/](http://www.imt.liu.se/~erisu/) Tel: +46-13-286733

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**Author:** ![Koray\_Atalag](https://discourse.openehr.org/user_avatar/discourse.openehr.org/koray_atalag/32/70_2.png) [@Koray\_Atalag](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/Koray_Atalag)\
**Post date:** [8 May 2010 00:24 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/medinfo-2010-openehr-tutorial-collision/14984/2 "2010-05-08T00:24:02Z")

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Hi Eric,

I think both openEHR workshops have been formatted as half day tutorials now. So openEHR I through IV contains both workshops. But must check with Heather.

I suspect the workshop " EHR implementation tips" is another one. If that is the case what you suggest perfectly makes sense to me because if I were interested in cutting edge EHR stuff I'd definitely want to attend this first and then go to openEHR workshops. I think it'd be good if we had our workshops one after another.

Having said that I'll be presenting in the Clinical Modelling Workshop. Interestingly enough I was almost sure that the workshops be held on Sunday and I have already booked my flight + accommodation ☹ Therefore shifting openEHR workshops to Sunday will be very convenient for me - and I guess we will have much more audience on Sunday 😉 So it'd be great if we can clarify this situation so that I can reschedule my trip.

Cheers,

-koray

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**Author:** ![heather.leslie](https://discourse.openehr.org/user_avatar/discourse.openehr.org/heather.leslie/32/1980_2.png) [@heather.leslie](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/heather.leslie)\
**Post date:** [8 May 2010 00:58 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/medinfo-2010-openehr-tutorial-collision/14984/3 "2010-05-08T00:58:14Z")

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Hi Koray and Erik,

> ```auto
> Hi Eric,
> 
> I think both openEHR workshops have been formatted as half day tutorials now.
> 
> ```

As I understand it the openEHR clinical modelling workshop is currently scheduled as a full day workshop - can only be held on Saturday as the Sunday afternoon is taken up with other conference events incl opening plenary.

> ```auto
> So openEHR I through IV contains both workshops.
> 
> ```

Do you mean the clinical and technical? I haven’t heard anything about this.  
Shinji - can you clarify the status with the technical workshop?

> ```auto
> But must check with Heather.
> 
> I suspect the workshop " EHR implementation tips" is another one.
> 
> ```

I suspect so.

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**Author:** ![system](https://discourse.openehr.org/uploads/default/original/2X/f/f0a1dedb20c42747bddcafd6c7df9db5f34f003c.svg) [@system](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [8 May 2010 06:39 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/medinfo-2010-openehr-tutorial-collision/14984/4 "2010-05-08T06:39:14Z")

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Hi Heather,

I found developers' workshop in Monday 13 Sep, Session 5 in the program.  
I think there is no collision...

Shinji

> Hi Koray and Erik,
> 
> On 7/05/2010 9:24 PM, Koray Atalag wrote: Hi Eric, I think both openEHR workshops have been formatted as half day tutorials now.  
> As I understand it the openEHR clinical modelling workshop is currently scheduled as a full day workshop - can only be held on Saturday as the Sunday afternoon is taken up with other conference events incl opening plenary.  
> So openEHR I through IV contains both workshops.  
> Do you mean the clinical and technical? I haven't heard anything about this.  
> Shinji - can you clarify the status with the technical workshop?  
> But must check with Heather. I suspect the workshop " EHR implementation tips" is another one.  
> I suspect so.  
> If that is the case what you suggest perfectly makes sense to me because if I were interested in cutting edge EHR stuff I'd definitely want to attend this first and then go to openEHR workshops. I think it'd be good if we had our workshops one after another. Having said that I'll be presenting in the Clinical Modelling Workshop. Interestingly enough I was almost sure that the workshops be held on Sunday and I have already booked my flight + accommodation ☹ Therefore shifting openEHR workshops to Sunday will be very convenient for me - and I guess we will have much more audience on Sunday 😉 So it'd be great if we can clarify this situation so that I can reschedule my trip. Cheers, -koray -----Original Message----- From: openehr-clinical-bounces@chime.ucl.ac.uk [mailto:openehr-clinical-bounces@chime.ucl.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Erik Sundvall Sent: Saturday, 8 May 2010 2:51 a.m. To: For openEHR clinical discussions; For openEHR technical discussions Subject: Medinfo 2010 openEH!

R tutorial collision Hi! The recently published preliminary Medinfo 2010 programme at... [http://www.medinfo2010.org/docs/Draft\_Conference\_Programme.pdf](http://www.medinfo2010.org/docs/Draft_Conference_Programme.pdf) ....lists two openEHR tutorials in parallel... 1. OpenEHR I - IV (Saturday 11 September 9:00-17:00) 2. EHR implementation tips I-II (Saturday 11 September 9:00-12:30) If I understand the content of the tutorials correctly, these are renamed versions of the ones mentioned on... [http://www.openehr.org/wiki/display/resources/MedInfo+2010+-+South+Africa](http://www.openehr.org/wiki/display/resources/MedInfo+2010+-+South+Africa) 1. Clinical Modeling Workshop Proposal 2. The openEHR developers' workshop If so, then I think it would be advantageous for somebody interested in openEHR to first attend 1 and then if they have a technical implementation interest to also attend 2. Is there an interest among the openEHR community in asking the organizing comitte to move #2 to sunday the 12:th instead or does it not matter for most of you? I'll send a copy of this mail to info@medinfo2010.org as an early notice, a!  
nd then sum up the response from the lists and/or comments on [http://w](http://w)  
ww.openehr.org/wiki/display/resources/MedInfo+2010+-+South+Africa in a follow up mail later. In addition to the reason above, about #2 partially building on understanding possible to gain in #1, it is also rather tricky flight-wise, but hopefully possible, for some of us involved in #2 to be there in time on the morning the 11:th. Best regards, Erik Sundvall erik.sundvall@liu.se [http://www.imt.liu.se/~erisu/](http://www.imt.liu.se/~erisu/) Tel: +46-13-286733 \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ openEHR-clinical mailing list openEHR-clinical@openehr.orghttp://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ openEHR-clinical mailing list openEHR-clinical@openehr.orghttp://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical

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**Author:** ![Seref](https://discourse.openehr.org/user_avatar/discourse.openehr.org/seref/32/13_2.png) [@Seref](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/Seref)\
**Post date:** [8 May 2010 11:56 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/medinfo-2010-openehr-tutorial-collision/14984/5 "2010-05-08T11:56:18Z")

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Hi Shinji and everyone,  
So there are sessions for implementation tips, and there is one for openEHR developers? Do we know who is doing which? 🙂

Best Regards  
Seref

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**Author:** ![tonyshannon](https://discourse.openehr.org/user_avatar/discourse.openehr.org/tonyshannon/32/528_2.png) [@tonyshannon](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/tonyshannon)\
**Post date:** [12 May 2010 10:53 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/medinfo-2010-openehr-tutorial-collision/14984/6 "2010-05-12T10:53:05Z")

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Thanks Eric, Koray, Shinji, Heather, Seref,

The way the programme outlines openEHR sessions looks ripe for potential  
confusion...

A search of the draft programme by keyword highlights openEHR 5 times,  
(#1-4) openEHR sessions I-IV over the day on the Saturday 11th September  
(#5) openEHR developers session on the evening of Monday 13th September

I'd suggest that the clinical and technical sides of the openEHR  
community need to agree between us how to blend our efforts together to  
get the best value for our time and those that want to come and learn.

The best format that comes to mind would be to;  
-A) use to 4 sessions on the precongress tutorial on the Saturday 11th  
to explore how healthcare can change for the better with openEHR over  
those 4 sessions, by blending the "clinical workshop" proposal with the  
"openEHR developers workshop" proposal in successive stages over the day..  
something along the lines of... Context & Intro re need for change;  
Clinical/Technical Requirements --\>Design/Build --\> and then  
Implementation + Clinical/Technical Benefits of openEHR

-B) take the highlights of that day, with clinical + technical blend  
into a single session for replay on the Monday 13th, to the different  
audience that can be anticipated on that first day of the formal conference.

I appreciate that might be seen to be disruptive of the existing  
proposals, but I'm sure they can be blended effectively.

I'm thinking of the novice to openEHR who will want to come away with an  
understanding of how clinicians and technical folk can work together to  
get a job done and a view that the openEHR approach is the way to go...

Happy to get bounced back on this. We havent had enough debate on this  
list of late, so again I'm trying to provoke!

Regards,

Tony

Dr. Tony Shannon  
Consultant in Emergency Medicine, Leeds Teaching Hospitals  
Clinical Lead for Informatics, Leeds Teaching Hospitals  
Chair, Clinical Review Board, openEHR Foundation  
+44.789.988 5068 tony.shannon@nhs.net

Erik Sundvall wrote:

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**Author:** ![heather.leslie](https://discourse.openehr.org/user_avatar/discourse.openehr.org/heather.leslie/32/1980_2.png) [@heather.leslie](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/heather.leslie)\
**Post date:** [12 May 2010 16:03 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/medinfo-2010-openehr-tutorial-collision/14984/7 "2010-05-12T16:03:27Z")

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I’m very happy to receive your advice on this.

We have a great opportunity with the full day workshop and afternoon technical workshop, however I don’t feel that we have total freedom to rearrange our proposed workshop plan.

We have provided an outline of the proposed plan and included the statement that the full day clinical modelling workshop assumes no previous knowledge of openEHR, that it will be clinical modelling focused, clinicians are encouraged to attend, and there are explicit ‘educational goals’. This information will be used by potential attendees to choose whether to attend or not, so to transform the program significantly is probably not advisable. The most flexibility is probably in the final session where we aim to show openEHR in real use.

What are your suggestions in order to achieve best outcomes?

Cheers

Heather

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**Author:** ![tonyshannon](https://discourse.openehr.org/user_avatar/discourse.openehr.org/tonyshannon/32/528_2.png) [@tonyshannon](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/tonyshannon)\
**Post date:** [13 May 2010 12:17 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/medinfo-2010-openehr-tutorial-collision/14984/8 "2010-05-13T12:17:06Z")

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Thanks Heather

I see from the "clinical" proposal how the 4 sessions on the Saturday  
are to be split...  
Session 1: Introduction  
Break  
Session 2: Focus on Archetypes  
Lunch  
Session 3: Focus on Templates  
Break  
Session 4: openEHR in action  
My reading of this is that there will be a mix of clinical and technical  
&nbsp;&nbsp;language used to step through these sessions, which if done well  
should be fine.

#Suggestion #1  
Within the clinical workshop, I expect novice clinicians to come with a  
common clinical requirement in mind and be keen to see how that ends up  
at the UI layer, where the vast majority of clinicians meets the  
technology..  
ie  
1.Assume we should be taking a common requirement, eg Patient Summary  
2.explore related archetypes required, eg in CKM  
3.creation of related template  
4.exposure of said template at UI layer..

(While I'm cc'ing the technical list in here, how much technical debate  
do the technical community expect will be generated by this "clinical"  
proposal?  
The current state of the template spec and the challenge of translating  
archetypes and templates into the UI layer comes to mind and could get  
quite technical...)

Also my sense is that the developers session on the Monday will replay  
many of these issues, which is why I'm suggesting ...  
#Suggestion #2  
we need to coordinate between these sessions to ensure a consistent  
message and the highlights from the pre-conference sessions can be  
"replayed" during the intra-conference session..

Regards,

Tony

Heather Leslie wrote:

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**Author:** ![heather.leslie](https://discourse.openehr.org/user_avatar/discourse.openehr.org/heather.leslie/32/1980_2.png) [@heather.leslie](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/heather.leslie)\
**Post date:** [13 May 2010 12:43 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/medinfo-2010-openehr-tutorial-collision/14984/9 "2010-05-13T12:43:04Z")

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Hi Tony

> ```auto
> Thanks Heather
> 
> I see from the "clinical" proposal how the 4 sessions on the Saturday
> are to be split...
> Session 1: Introduction
> Break
> Session 2: Focus on Archetypes
> Lunch
> Session 3: Focus on Templates
> Break
> Session 4: openEHR in action
> My reading of this is that there will be a mix of clinical and technical
> language used to step through these sessions,
> 
> ```

As primary author, the original intent was to be focused on the engagement of clinicians and those with no openEHR background - a primer if you like - and to keep the technical content to a practical minimum, assuming that there would be an equivalent technical opportunity.  
Now that has not eventuated but as I said in the previous email, I need advice as to how much we can move from our accepted proposal - I suspect we are largely bound to it as is, but can see the flexibility to present more technical aspects within the context of the final session - openEHR in action.

> ```auto
> which if done well
> should be fine.
> 
> #Suggestion #1
> Within the clinical workshop, I expect novice clinicians to come with a
> common clinical requirement in mind and be keen to see how that ends up
> at the UI layer, where the vast majority of clinicians meets the
> technology..
> ie
> 1.Assume we should be taking a common requirement, eg Patient Summary
> 2.explore related archetypes required, eg in CKM
> 3.creation of related template
> 4.exposure of said template at UI layer..
> 
> ```

This is largely what was proposed as part of #3 - after a general introduction in session #1, and information about archetypes/CKM in #2, then we can showcase the templates with a practical example such as you suggest in #3

> ```auto
> (While I'm cc'ing the technical list in here, how much technical debate
> do the technical community expect will be generated by this "clinical"
> proposal?
> The current state of the template spec and the challenge of translating
> archetypes and templates into the UI layer comes to mind and could get
> quite technical...)
> 
> ```

IMO this workshop is definitely not the place for this kind of discussion!

> ```auto
> Also my sense is that the developers session on the Monday will replay
> many of these issues, which is why I'm suggesting ...
> #Suggestion #2
> we need to coordinate between these sessions to ensure a consistent
> message and the highlights from the pre-conference sessions can be
> "replayed" during the intra-conference session..
> 
> ```

I would love to see the final session #4 especially be coordinated so that it can be a seamless segue into the technical session on the Monday

Regards

Heather

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**Author:** ![tonyshannon](https://discourse.openehr.org/user_avatar/discourse.openehr.org/tonyshannon/32/528_2.png) [@tonyshannon](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/tonyshannon)\
**Post date:** [13 May 2010 16:10 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/medinfo-2010-openehr-tutorial-collision/14984/10 "2010-05-13T16:10:20Z")

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Thanks Heather

Sounds good, though my sense is that if the “clinical” workshop appears to have been allocated 6 hours (1.5 x4) and the “technical” (developers) workshop has 1.5 hours on Monday, there will be attendees on the Saturday that will want to get into the technical detail you want to avoid?

As the Saturday sessions are currently labelled openEHR I- IV in the “draft” programme we should be asking the organisers to amend the session titles to avoid confusion..  
Building overlap between the final “openEHR in action” session on the Saturday and the developers session on the Monday sounds a good way to align.

Awaiting some reaction from the technical side…

Regards

Tony

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**Author:** ![heather.leslie](https://discourse.openehr.org/user_avatar/discourse.openehr.org/heather.leslie/32/1980_2.png) [@heather.leslie](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/heather.leslie)\
**Post date:** [13 May 2010 17:43 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/medinfo-2010-openehr-tutorial-collision/14984/11 "2010-05-13T17:43:11Z")

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> Thanks Heather
> 
> Sounds good, though my sense is that if the “clinical” workshop appears to have been allocated 6 hours (1.5 x4) and the “technical” (developers) workshop has 1.5 hours on Monday, there will be attendees on the Saturday that will want to get into the technical detail you want to avoid?

I know it is ‘not fair’ but I’m not sure that we can change the scope of the accepted proposal in order to even it out. I understood that the accepted workshop paper will be published and so we cannot change at whim, especially in terms of the expected audience and expected learning outcomes. I’m happy to be corrected…

As I’ve said previously, I think that we do have some room for flexibility in the final session and certainly a willingness to do so.

> As the Saturday sessions are currently labelled openEHR I- IV in the “draft” programme we should be asking the organisers to amend the session titles to avoid confusion..

We can certainly request that.

> Building overlap between the final “openEHR in action” session on the Saturday and the developers session on the Monday sounds a good way to align.

Absolutely

> Awaiting some reaction from the technical side…

me too;-)

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**Author:** ![Koray\_Atalag](https://discourse.openehr.org/user_avatar/discourse.openehr.org/koray_atalag/32/70_2.png) [@Koray\_Atalag](https://discourse.openehr.org/u/Koray_Atalag)\
**Post date:** [17 May 2010 10:01 UTC](https://discourse.openehr.org/t/medinfo-2010-openehr-tutorial-collision/14984/12 "2010-05-17T10:01:05Z")

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Resending as plain text - bounced back due to file size when I replied